Dienstag, 7. April 2015

Id philosophic sohkw: oraryo ka gwiv bahsa


Pos mien experiments med Lidepla ed Sambahsa, ho inkapen id sohkw ios philosophic, conceptual fundament pro Sambahsa, ed general-ye, pro id "cheus" ios optimal planbahsa, exter tik practic raisons. Pro to ho lisen id preface ed introduction ios buk "A Grammar of Modern Indo-European" (un grammatic os moderne oraryo) ab Carlos Quiles ed Fernando López-Menchero. In tod buk biht id MIE (Modern Indo-European) exposen. Tod est id bahsa ios project Dnghu, quod biht proposen ka moderne, "standard" oraryo. Ne ho dar lisen ia explications de id bahsa pet, schowi ne ghehdo dar scribe de tod bahsa, bet ye prest vid id kwehct destull complicat pro ses druve-ye nuden ka baht bahsa. Ne woidim. Bet to ne est tant important. 
 

Lises tod introduction hat sense in id contexte os uces Sambahsa, ob to maynt lises de id culture quos reconstrugen bahsa anghen euct. Lakin, id idee os uces un bahsa quod est basen ep id oraryo hat id particularitat od id culture quod tod bahsa bayght neti exist. Schowi, in id actual status iom jects, anghen dehlgiet ses convicen de id importance os uces un reconstrugen bahsa basen ep id oraryo, au sollt trehve eventual-ye tod importance kay ses motiven ad uces dalger. Sei anghen est convicen de to, el ghehdt mathalan uces id MIE, au Sambahsa, quom eten est precis-ye id oraryo. Lakin, ia technic differences inter ia dwo bahsas sont kwecto mier. Ka motivation pro uces talg bahsa ies autors os MIE bayanent: "The interest in the study and use of Indo-European as a living language today is equivalent to the interest in the study and use of these ancient languages as learned languages in the the [sic] Byzantine Empire, India and Mediaeval Europe, respectively."1 [Id interesse de id studye ed neud ios oraryo ka gwiv bahsa hoyd est equivalent ad id interesse de id studye ed neud tom ancian bahsas ka ucen bahsas in id Rhomay Empire, Hind, ed Medieval Europe, respective-ye]
 

Quayque ne credeihm od id hoydic talimat os un moderne oraryo esiet equivalent med ia motivations in ta zamans pro uces un ancian bahsa, mehno od id moderne motivation pro uces un moderne oraryo ghehdiet ses in id historia ios aryo civilisation pet. Ta ancian bahsas hieb in id zaman un special maynen pro i leuds qui nud ta bahsas. Tod maynen est indisputable-ye in id certain cultural perception os un awo bahsa ka eten os un certain civilisation. To maynt, in id fall os Sambahsa, od est important woide de quo leit in tod oraryo culture, sei anghen assumpt od id druv aptergrund os Sambahsa sont precis-ye i oraryi, hatta quan todghi bahsa hat includen maung werds ex alya familias. 
 

Resumend ia differences inter MIE ed Sambahsa, id probleme in MIE, kam Olivier mi hat bfwendwanen, ed kam anghen leist in tod buk, est od ne sont ter maung moderne (ed ne tant moderne!) lexis pro "normal" hoydic concepta, ed maung werds bihnt artificial-ye reinventen. Un tom ubfallend werds bayna alya est id stragno werd pro universe: oinowṛstós. Est absurd mehne od ia aryi hieb ja creen quant concepto ed werd pro cada ject, mohnen ed definihen quant, hatta nies moderne concepts ed werds. Sei esiet ithan, "oinowṛstós" esiet un gohd predecessor os "universus". Bet id realitat est od id concept hat un latin origin, pelu secules pos od i oraryi wandereer ep id surface ios ardh. Talg composite werds sont ya baygh artificial pro un bahsa quo supponend-ye est tik un "reconstruction". —Her esiet gohd kyunggiawe, od talg reconstruction ios oraryo samt id ziel ses iter un gwiv bahsa est impossible aun addihes werds qua ne bayghent id oraryo, ob maung moderne concepts (kam "universe") buir exmohnen maung secules pos. 
 

Trans id werd pro universe, tod ed alya stragna exempels om nov veutihen werds sont ithan exposen:



Examples of loan translations from modern NWIE languages are e.g. from Latin aquaeduct (Lat. aquaeductus → MIE aqāsduktos) or universe (Lat. uniuersus<*oin(i)-uors-o-<*oino-wṛt-to- → MIE oinowṛstós ‘turned into one’); from English, like software (from Gmc. samþu-, warō → MIE somtúworā); from French, like ambassador (from Cel. amb(i)actos → MIE ambhíagtos ‘public servant’); or chamber (from O.Lat. camera, from PGk. kamárā, ‘vault’ → MIE kamarā); from Russian, like bolshevik (MIE belijówikos); etc.2


To deict od id concept os naturalitat est, bariem in sem falls, in connexion med id cultural origin iom werds. Reinvente sem werd ne est necessar-ye un vantage pro un (plan)bahsa. Ta reinventions, in id fall os un bahsa quod bihiet ucen ka dwot bahsa in un international contexte (hatta MIE bihiet ucen ed nuden ithan!), incurrent id danger os ses fahamen ka alien ab id mund, lika ad quo wakyet med maung werds in esperanto au alya planbahsas. Quayque talg reinventions kwehkent logic, sont complete-ye innecessar (vid heruper!).



Bayna ia jects qua anghen ghehdt lises de Occidental/Interlingue, bahsa quod noroct-ye hat esen baht ab maung lucid leuds qui hant scripto sem interessant articles, ter est id concept ios invention iom lexis ab un certain culture, ed kam ta werds (au inventions) buir importen do Interlingue. In id article "Esque Occidental es Romanophil?" [Kwe Occidental est romanophil?] ab E. de Wahl anghen leist de ia selection om werds om different linguistic familias qua buir exmohnen ab certain cultures. Ithan anghen hat hellen werds pro science ed philosophia, latin werds pro id organic gwit ed social-politic lexis, italian werds pro id music ed bank operations, yunyun. 
 

In Sambahsa to est yaschi id fall. Bet est kwecto yaschi id fall mathalan pro asian werds ed concepts, qua ne necessar-ye habmos in id west. Un tom werds qua ho nuper trohven est id werd "rlaurjien", quod med mien modeste linguistic imkans ho relaten con id chinese werd "lǎorén". Ho sprohgen Olivier de tod werd ed is baht: "Kalo ta werds "sinitic" ob ne existent tik in Chinese Mandarin sontern yaschi in sem nieber bahsa, in tod fall Japanese (sonst ne habiem ghens un werd quod exist tik in Chinese): rojin. Yaschi Guangdungwa (official bahsa in Hong Kong ed Macao) hat "loujan". Id Sambahsa est schowi un medio inter Mandarin ed Japanese." 
 

Id englisch maynen os "rlaurjien" est "senior, elderly person". "Senior" est un werd samt maunga maynens, schowi, sei anghen eiskwiet bahe exclusiv-ye de un awis person, el dehlgiet describe to simple-ye med mathalan "awis person", sei tod sinitic werd ne existiet in Sambahsa.
 

Alyo werd quod pehndo interessant est id werd "ocolo" (at the other side of), quos origin ho trohven menxu eeleiso un part ios "Tolk de Chakobsa", nam-ye slav. De ta dwo werds anghen ghehdt ja kaue od ia werds au concepts qua sont compact ed important pro certain mier regions bihnt importen do Sambahsa per un similar weidos med quod "universe" buit importen do Sambahsa: un latin, compact concept, wayt-ye gnohn biht takriban direct-ye importen. To lasst yaschi vide, ma anghen ne neudt maung composit werds in Sambahsa. Quayque id composit oinowṛstós ghehdiet kwehke ka exageration, ithan kwehkent ops ia composit werds, besonters quan anghen ja gnoht un certain compact werd pro tod concept ed arasih ghat talg composition (c.F. esperanto, ido, etc.). Lakin, sei ne est ter un dohbrer makdour, un composite est id prabh weidos.


Sei id culture quod hat exmohnen sem werd est tant essential, ed ob to anghen euct un bahsa basen ep id oraryo, mankiet dar include id origin iom werds do id Sambahsa dictionar, bariem slemb-ye med sem bragvens. To kwehriet od anghen ghehdt localise meis facil id cultural component os un certain werd, alnos kam id oraryo culture ghehdt biht dyohrct per id historia ios hindeuropay civilisation.



Martín Rincón Botero, Aprile, 2015
 

1 A Grammar of Modern Indo-European, Quiles, López-Menchero, pag. 12


2 A Grammar of Modern Indo-European, Quiles, López-Menchero, pag. 44, 45

Kommentare:

  1. Kwe ne est un error her? In mien mayn, Sambahsa est tik begrundet ep id oraryo, id ne est un tentative scrisces id, kam dnhgu maght ses. Sambahsa maght kwehke veut, bet id est un moderne bahsa, con compact werds ed un riche werdskaut.

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    1. Sellamat Sylvain!
      Ya, ioschi ne ghabo quo tu mayns. Id central idee in tod article ghehdiet ses resumen in tod ligne: "Lises tod introduction [ios MIE] hat sense in id contexte os uces Sambahsa, ob to maynt lises de id culture quos reconstrugen bahsa anghen euct [also, Sambahsa]." Sei sambahsa est basen ep id oraryo, to maynt yaschi od id oraryo est quasi id cultural aptergrund ios bahsa. Ye mieno mayn, un bahsa mathalan como interlingua hat kam cultural aptergrund id romanc folk. Id aptergrund os sambahsa esiet i oraryi, quim heredat est hoyd in id mund wayt-ye sprohen.

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  2. Hat Martin scriben to ? Is maynt anter od est interessant woide quetos gwehmt id major aptergrund os Sambahsa.

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  3. Naudhmos un etymologic dictionnar. Mier orbat.

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  4. Est ja Idéopédia pro Sambahsa (uper 350 werds, bayna qua ia meist nudens) : http://selestat.no-ip.org/ideolexique/index.php/Cat%C3%A9gorie:Sambahsa-mundialect

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  5. Quo Martin ne ja wois, est tod daftar om Hindeuropay raudhs in Sambahsa, ho kwohrn penk yars prever : https://fr.scribd.com/doc/36739043/Hindeuropay-Sambahsa-raudhs

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  6. Hat druv-ye Sambahsa un philosophic aptergrund?

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    1. Ne dar ;-) ob to bahm de id philosophic "sohkw". Maung leuds ne woid de id oraryo, ed mehno od promove id oraryo ed id importance tos hypothetic bahsa ka mater om maung moderne bahsas, lika kam promove information de id oraryo culture est ye id sam wakt quasi kam promove sambahsa au bariem dehlgiet ses un component tos promotion.

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    2. Bet promove sambahsa ne est equivalent con promovo id oraryo! Sambaha gwehmt ex id oraryo, inter alya surces, kam id franceois au id espaniol gwehment ex id latin!

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    3. No, ne est equivalent. Id consideren pro nudes id oraryo ka surce os sambahsa ne kwehct tik practic. Ta raudhs sont present in vasya arya bahsas per sem obscure weidos. Od mathalan "mehn" est in "mind" ed "prete" in "interprete" ne sont evident relations pro el quel ne hat sem aptergrund in etymologia au linguistics. Ia exempels sont maung meis, ed ho preten gohder sambahsa per uces lyt de etymologia in id Wiktionary. Bet sei ne exist sem practic principe os intelligibilitat kam in Interlingua, quer ia werds sont preten ab un vast communitat, tun mehno od id raison os chuses ia orarya raudhs est ye mieno mayn meis philosophic quem practic. Credeiho od quan practicitat esiet important in sambahsa in id cheus iom werds meis quem sem historic-ye correct attitude dia id oraryo, id bahsa ghehdiet meis au minter kwehct kam in mien prev experiment (http://martinsambahsa.blogspot.de/2015/04/experiment.html). Tod "historicistic attitude" ghehdt tik bihe explien per id philosophia apter id interesse de id oraryo bahsa ed sien culture. Dat id information de id oraryo bahsa/culture ne est tant propagen, lises de tod theme ghehdt hehlpe ad trehve tod philosophic aptergrund quod ne dar exist.

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  7. Yaghi hat un practic aptergrund, lakin id Sambahsas lexical aptergrundo ne se limitet ad oraryo : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sambahsa#Wordstock

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